"We are all born, all of us, specifically- not as human beings but as Chinese, Blacks, Jews, Arabs."... Vlasta.. I disagree, I think we are born human being first, and then we put ourselves in different categories for many obvious reasons. If you ask any one, perhaps with the exception of Jews like you, they will tell you they are human being first, and this belonging making us all equal in the eyes of natural laws and certainly in the eyes of God. You will also find this reference to us being Human Beings first in our American Constitution, without reference to us being Whites, Blacks, Jews and Gentiles. I am sure that our God does not see the Chinese different than He/She sees Jews and Arabs or Africans. On the issue of freedom of press and thoughts, yes, I think that only in Israel,there is freedom to debate issues of Zionism, racism, occupation, targeted assassinations, confiscations of lands and properties, death in Gaza . I always admired the Israeli press and journalists for the courage to speak out on issues related to Israel and its policies and behaviors. I guess these journalists are not affraid being labeled Anti-Semitic and do not fear for losing their jobs, trashed in the media and in public, and are not afraid being labeled "self hating Jews" because they chose to be Israeli Jews. Too bad in the West and especially in the US there is simply NO room to debate or discuss or disagree on issues related to Israel and Zionism without one being labeled Anti-Semitic, and full of hate like I have been accused of here on this site. However I think that in due time we in America will be able to declare our Second Independence Day.. this time not from the British, but from Zionism and we will be able to speak out on issues such as Zionism. Fascism, Racisms Ismlamophobia, and Jihadism. Never understood why we can debate any thing on earth including G-d/God/Allah and not be afaird, and we could not debate Zionism without accusations of Anti-Semitism and hate? Does our First Amendement rights to freedom of speech stop at Z..ionism.

You missed the whole point of the passage.  Yes, we are all born human beings, but not in a vacuum!  The culture in which we were born shapes us for better or for worse.  BTW, I was not born a Jew, therefore can be a little more objective  ;-)!  My parents had taught me to respect all people and all religions, although there were very few religious people in my old country.  Only old people went to religious services.   Ethics was not a result of a fear of punishment by God, but a part of our human inheritance.   Just a right thing to do!  

We can discuss anything as long as it is not one-sided and distorted.  When synagogues and churches are built around Caba, as there are mosques above Wailing wall in Israel (which is the holliest site for Jews) and when 20% of population of any Arab country is Jewish and/or Christian without being considered a dimy, we will have sufficient symmetry to discuss Zion (Biblical name for Palestine) and Israel.

Anyone who can put Zionism in the same sentence with those horrendous ideologies IS either ignorant and/or a deliberately distorting history to fit his preconceived anti-Semitic ideas.   One should always look at facts in the context of their appearance.  

As far as freedom of discussion goes, remember Salmon Rushdie and his freedom to discuss certain aspects of Islam in his book Satanic Verses?  Poor guy had to hide for his life.   While Arab media can be filled with Antisemitic cartoons, similar to those published in Hitler' Germany, there are riots in Danmark after some rather accurate statements are made regarding M. (based on readings from Koran). Where is a freedom of speech and open discussion, when the mobs of people who have been given an opportunity to have better life in Denmark shout threatening slogans toward their host country?  

You can make all kinds of outrageous and untruthful statements about Judaism and Zionism and nothing happens because we live in a Society where freedom of speech is cherished, even when it is untruth   ;-)!  Try that in any middle Eastern country except in Israel, where Arab journalists can publish most aggressive criticism of Israeli government and Jews, while in Gaza or West Bank for such statements they would be imprisoned of killed!

However, your type of distortions of history of the Jews and Zionism are only making most Jews afraid of Palestinian Arabs, and thus puts the goal of having a Palestinian state even further into the future.  There is no point of discussing the chicken and egg situation any more...perhaps it is time to make an omelet and fried chicken  ;-)?

Salaam and Shalom

National Socialists ( Nazis) thought they are liberating their country from the evils of Jews and they went about to destroy any thing and everything Jewish. Apartheid South Africans, also thought and believed that they are superior to Blacks and as such should have privilegelife casting Blacks as second class citizens. In America and for over two centuries racist Whites thought they are superior to Blacks and that Blacks do not rise to the level of equal citizens and with equal rights.Communists thought they are representative of the proletariat and as such all other classes have no place in a communist system. If Zionism limited itself to "liberating the Jews" and did not go about destroying the Palestinian community that would have been right.. It is when an ideology such as Zionism that make it a point to destroy and uproot another community and even deny their existence ( a people without a country for a country without people" makes Zionism an evil force and ideology. I guess we have to simply disagree on the issue of Zionism, since we could reconcile our differences. One could never reconcile themselves with Racism, Communism, Fascism, Zionism and Jihadism ( as defined by Alqaeda) or Apartheid. Zionism believe that Jews are superior to Palestinians and that Jews have every right to dispossess and exiles Palestinians outside of Palestine. My conclusions are based on writing and literature of Zionist writers and philosophers... look at Lieberman as one small example... there are millions of Jews around the world who believed the same..Salam and Shalom.

As is true in the United States, I think that the terms left vs. right are not very meaningful anymore. In general terms, Israel is and has always been a rather left-wing country. It started out with a heavy socialistic emphasis (the kibbutz, etc.). A strong market economy has developed now but it retains strong social problems, much closer to universal health care than we have in the US, strong environmental concerns, efforts to get away from carbon based energy, etc.

In the American press, the right-wing in Israel has come to mean everyone who is concerned with security and a strong defense. By that definition, even the Labor party is right wing. Right vs. left does not explain the differences in approach.  There is a legitimate area of disagreement regarding the role of diplomacy and negotiation and about precisely what can be negotiated.

There is also a general feeling by most people who have looked at Israeli politics that the electoral system needs reform. In a recent survey (just a few weeks ago) published in the Jerusalem Post, 62% of Israelis felt the electoral system should be changed. But interestingly enough, the ultimate result is going to reflect the democratic will pretty accurately. The some Post survey showed that 80% thought that security is the most important issue and 73% favored Netanyahu to lead the next government. When the dust clears, that is probably the way the government is going to turn out. The complicated nature of all the bargaining and horsetrading that is needed to form a government tends to obscure that the majority is winning out in the end. Thus the system obscures the legitimacy of the result. The system also tends to give more weight to the "left" in this election because it makes it appear that Livni won whereas the large "right" wing victory was divided among many contenders.
Electoral reform will at least clarify what the people want.

For all those who in America who always finds excuses and justifications for Israeli actions read this from today's Haaretz " Israel Defense Forces investigations into last month's offensive in the Gaza Strip indicate the army could face significant difficulties justifying the scale of destruction of civilian homes during the fighting. A military source involved in the investigation told Haaretz, "It's clear to us that in a small portion of the combat sectors immeasurable damage was caused, and that is very difficult to justify from a legal perspective, particularly if such justifications are called for in legal proceedings with international organizations." What I said stand true. Only in Israell can any one can criticise and speak out on the brutality of Israel. No one dare say anything in the US, not in the NY Times, not in the Washington Post, not on CNN, not on NPR, certainly not on Fox News. Oh I forgot, Haaretz is a "leftist" anti-Israeli paper?

The article in the Zionist nespaper Haaretz (which means "country") just shows the commitment of the Zionists to find out the truth.  If you spend half of the time you are nitpicking the faults of Israel,  to correct the extremism of Palestinians, it would be helpful for the creation of the Palestinian state. 

It is amazing that you have a respect for a Zionist institution of a free press, while you have such a distorted picture of the meaning and history of Zionism and Judaism in general.   Would you help your neighbor build a house if that neighbor keeps shooting at you because you are not perfect and wants to take over the house you have been building for a century?

"Zionism believe that Jews are superior to Palestinians and that Jews have every right to dispossess and exiles Palestinians outside of Palestine"

Sami, that is a false statement if I have ever seen one, one of many published by several Arab propaganda writers.

Lets take it apart, first of all Zionism has no such beliefs and certainly not about any superiority over other people.

Zionism is simply an organization founded in just to create a homeland for the Jews, who have been prosecuted for thousands of years , for no reason except for being Jewish.

Here is the Wikipedia definition, since you doubt me:

Zionism is the international Jewish political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine, after two millennia of exile. The area is the Jewish Biblical homeland, called the Land of Israel (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra'el). Since the creation of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.[1]

Zionism is largely based on strong historical ties and religious traditions linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel, where the concept of Jewish nationhood first evolved somewhere between 1200 BCE and the late Second Temple era (i.e. up to 70 CE).[2][3]

The modern movement was mainly founded by secular Jews, beginning largely as a response by European Jewry to antisemitism across Europe.[4] It is a branch of the broader phenomenon of modern nationalism.[5] Initially one of several Jewish political movements offering alternative responses to assimilation and the position of Jews in Europe.

Zionism grew rapidly following knowledge of the Holocaust and became the dominant power among Jewish political movements.

The political movement was formally established by the Austro-Hungarian journalist Theodor Herzl in the late 19th century following the publication of "Der Judenstaat".[6] The movement seeks to encourage Jewish migration to the Promised Land and was eventually successful in establishing Israel in 1948, as the homeland for the Jewish people.

Its proponents regard its aim as self-determination for the Jewish people.[7] The percentage of world Jewry living in Israel has steadily grown since the movement came into existence. Today more Jews live in Israel than in any other country. About 40% of the world's Jews live in Israel and a similar number live in the United States.[8]

"Zionism believe that Jews are superior to Palestinians and that Jews have every right to dispossess and exiles Palestinians outside of Palestine."
Sami, this kind of comment gets you deleted. Zionism isn't any one thing. It's a kind of word that means lots of different things to different people. If you restrict the definition to something vague like - Zionism is the attachment that Jews feel towards the biblical Land of Israel - that you are can be correct with more folks.

Not all Zionists believe what you say. Suggesting otherwise is to paint a large number of people with a diversity of ideas with a demeaning, insulting brush. When you do that, you are engaging in a form of hate speech - which is not allowed here.

If you want to say that a specific party in Israel - say Lieberman's - is racist, you can be correct. But Zionists in general? What does that even mean? There is no such thing as Zionists 'in general,' not even when you go back in history. For every early Zionist who says A, there is another who says B. That's often how it is with ideologies.

It's like saying that 'Palestinian nationalism is and always has been pan-Arab in nature' just because many decades ago, when Pan-Arabism was popular, Fatah and then the PFLP and DFLP thought it. Today of course, with the rise of Hamas and the primacy of international Muslim solidarity, it's kind of a dated statement that has little meaning outside a few dusty Ba'athist slogans.

Zionism is a catagory of thought that relates to the attachment of Jews to the bibilical Land of Israel and/or to the modern State of Israel. Some Zionists supported mass immigration; some didn't. Some wanted a binational state, others didn't. Some were religious, others socialist. Many Zionists aren't Jewish - the vast majority of religiously motivated Zionists aren't Jewish - but Christians, especially of protestant followers of millenial dispensationalism. And even they don't think that Jews are better than Arabs. Only that following the Lord's real estate instructions are better than not following them.
Admittedly, that last one sounds nutty to me. But not racist!

Charles,
 Great point made about there is no such thing as Zionists 'in general,' not even when you go back in history. For every early Zionist who says A, there is another who says B. That's often how it is with ideologies. Good to see a level head when things are heated. 

SAMI:
Zionism from the days when they 1st started to now are the  strong historical ties and religious traditions that link the Jewish people to Isreal where the idea of their nationhood 1st started. The next generation founded by secular Jews has a broader dimention including modern nationalism. Today 40% of Jews live in Isreal because of the last movement of encouragement to migrate to the Promised Land. The other largest number being in the US.
Where does the racist card come into play may I ask ???? Seems that any time someone doesn't agree with something that has to do with religion, race and etc. the racist card is pulled. The only thing I see when someone pulls that when it's not needed is that they have nothing to say or no back up for their statements. Sad really.

Almost all zionists, from Herzl on, believe that they had the "right" to dispossess the Palestinians.  Some even in those early years advocated violence to do so - but the official policy was economic and political discrimination until 1948.  Economic discrimination is, for example, written in the JNF mission statements. Starting before 1948 zionist policy and practice was mass violence directed against civilians, and solely non-Jewish civilians.  Ben Gurion used many words meaning "cleanse" or "purify" to describe military actions to get rid of the Palestinians.  Both economic and political discrimination as well as mass violence directed against Palestinian (and other Arab) civilians has been Israel's practice ever since.  I can't say whether Zionists believed Jews were superior to Palestinians, it's more like they just didn't consider they even existed as a people in the the land of Palestine, or that they were primitive savages to be "cleared" like the rocks.  And whether or not they say they disapproved of mass murder of Palestinians in order to terrorize them into giving up their homes, Zionists all approve the results.

That's pretty racist.  And it definately applies to Zionists in general.  I don't know anyone calling themself a zionist who believes that Palestinians have equal right to return to their homeland in what's now Israel.  That too is racist.  Claiming an emotional attachment to the land of Israel but denying that Palestinians might have one too, and allowing Jews and only Jews to fulfill that attachment.

As to the Mufti's alliance with nazi Germany and racism, that's true, but he had very little following at the time.  For one, he'd been exiled from Palestine by the British before WWII, why do you think he went over to the other side?  Palestine never had a nazi party, and a number of Palestinian Arabs served with the British against Germany.  Prior to WWII, England and the U.S. did.  Some zionists certainly colluded with the nazis - in the early years of naziism they shared the common goal of getting Jews to leave Europe.   Not to mention Yitzhak Shamir's alliance with Mussolini and attempted alliance with the nazis against the British.

"I don't know anyone calling themself a zionist who believes that Palestinians have equal right to return to their homeland in what's now Israel."

I do. Not all Zionists think that Jewish rights trump Palestinian rights. They just want Jewish rights to be legitimately included in the conversation.

I had a rather detailed response to Lyn McKuen, detailing fallacies of his individual claims regarding Zionism and Jewish state, with references to historical sources.  It is not here any more, so I am curious what had happened to it?  Is this site only to promote a particular, rather anti-Zionist and anti-Jewish view of the history and present times?  Or is it to give an opportunity to bash Israel, by criticizing its actions  and mistakes out of its geographic and/or historical context of the Middle East.

Vlasta, when I see the same person offer multiple posts in a row that have nothing to do with the topic of the original post, I sometimes delete them. This discourages very long, well researched comments that don't belong here. I also do it when I see the same comment inserted in multiple discussions.

This site IS MODERATED.

But not based on the opinions expressed - we have quite a diversity here.

Congratulations to the 1/100000 zionists who believes in equal right of return for Palestinians.  It doesn't change the fact that the main body of zionist philosophy ascribes to superior rights for Jews, or change the fact that a lot of the writing  and expression of zionist leaders is racist when it says anything about the native people of Palestine, and the manifestation of the zionist project, i.e., the state of Israel, was profoundly racist, formed in a racist manner by mass murder and terror against other ethnic groups.  Any zionist who supports the state of Israel as presently constituted, requiring superior privilege one ethnic/religious group, whether they support the mass murder and terror by that state against those who don't support the "right" of the state to exist as such, is to that extent a follower of a racist philosophy.  And, I believe in general zionists do support the state of Israel as presently constituted, and approve, excuse, whatever, the mass murder and terror by which it was founded.

As for the Jews who left Arab countries, many left voluntarily, recruited by Zionists because the Zionists wanted Jewish bodies in Israel.  I'd never claim that there wasn't a certain amount of suspicion of Jews in general after the mass murders committed by the zionists, which was of course unfair, but well, the Israeli zionists were trying to recruit them to operate against the interests of the Arab countries. 

In fact Syria and Iraq forbade Jews from emmigrating for many years.  A violation of their rights, but far, far from forcing them out. Israel gave Moroccan Jews as much as $20,000 to emmigrate to Israel, and sent transport planes to Yemen to pick up Yemenese Jews.  Libya (if I recall right) and Egypt did in fact expel their Jews after Israel attacked Egypt in 1956.  Israel has a peace deal with Egypt, if they wanted the Jews to regain their property they certainly should have pressed for it.  In the cases of Jews abandoning property in Arab countries, the the rightful owners of that property may have a legitimate grievance with the governments of those countries.  It wasn't the Palestinians who expelled the Jews from the Arab countries, or took their property. 

I'd like to see some of Vlasta's references.  I wouldn't be surprised if he quotes "The Case for Israel," the notoriously fraudulant book by Alan Dershowitz, which was partially plagerized from another fraudulant book "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Didion.  Now, just look, I've tied in the theme of the original post.  Alan Dershowitz is very much a leftist, maybe not in Israel but certainly a supporter, and alive and kicking.

As I said, I am all for equal rights of Palestinians to return to Israel, when the Arabian Jews also get equal rights to return to their homes and get back their land, which they lost by leaving from 1948-1970.   For more eye-witness information see also testimonies of the Jews who escaped Arab countries (about ONE million who used to live there and who now make up 40% of the Jewish population of Israel), who had  experienced the Arab Turnspeak 60 years ago, when the Arab elites and mobs forced them to leave their homes and lands in the Arab world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands and http://www.jimena.org ).  According to their land-deeds and estimates of value of their houses, which they were forced to leave behind in Arab countries, such as Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Syria and Morocco (only rarely compesated), is $300 billions and the lands that they owned in Arab Arab countries and were forced to leave without compensation was 100,000 sq miles, which is the size of 4-5 surfaces of Israel (including Gaza strip and the West Bank).  When those Mizrahi Jews get their rights to their land installed, we can talk about restoring the rights of Palestinian Arabs, but NOT before!

You, and people like you on this supposedly peace forum are talking Turnspeak, just as Hitler was using this powerful propaganda technique against Jews, when he came to power in Germany.   This TURNSPEAK is one of the most hideous and dangerous Hamas propaganda techniques, which is supported and also used by many Radical Islamists of the Palestinian Authority, in the Western media (they are violently and DIRECTLY anti-west and anti-Semitic in their Mosques, clearly indicating what they plan to do with the Jews in Israel, if they get into power).  The Arab League also makes use of this cognitive technique of propaganda called "Turnspeak", where you attack someone and then turn it around 180 degrees and claim they attacked you. Because the truth is the exact opposite of the propaganda being disseminated, it is psychologically difficult to counter and leads to confusion. 

This technique, which Hitler, Goebels, and other leading Nazis skillfully used on German population, transformed many previously normal Germans into Nazis and Nazi sympathizers.  Combined with a brutality of the Nazi regime, similar to the brutality of the Radical Islam, which is even more medieval, the Holocaust was made possible. 

As a result of the more recent Turnspeak used on Lebanon, as well as the extremely high birthrate among the Arab Muslims, and the radicalization of Muslims (particularly Palestinian Muslims, when PLO was allowed to come to Southern Lebanon by naïve Christian Arabs, after it was evicted by the Jordanian King in 1970), Lebanon’ democracy has been lost (http://www.americancongressfortruth.com/profile.asp).  

The activities covered up by the TURNSPEAK clearly demonstrate that the Radical Islam is NOT AT ALL interested in establishing a democratic Palestinian state, but SOLEY in taking over Israel by stealth (helped by panics like you), as they did in Lebanon, and establishing their particular brand of “democracy” of HATE, as described in the Amnesty International report of February 10, 2009!   (http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE21/001/2009/en/9f210586-f762-11dd-8fd7-f57af21896e1/mde210012009en.html   For more detail how PLO and radical Muslims destroyed previously ONLY democracy in Middle East aside from Israel, listed to true stories of American Congress for Truth, founded by one of the many victims of Islamic Radicalism in Lebanon, the Christian Arab, Mrs. Brigitte Gabriel (www.americancongressfortruth.com/mission-vision.asp).

We can only hope that European and American people of all religions, beliefs and nationalities, and especially peace activists, will wake up and realize how the Turnspeak of the Radical Islam is misleading them, because of their naïve belief in democracy and equal value of various beliefs and cultures (PC).  We, the people who truly love peace, democracy, freedom, and LIFE, must never allow the creation of Euro-Arabia or Amero-Arabia, as Bin Ladin and Radical Islam have been promising in their speeches and writings, as Hitler also did in 1923 in Mine Kampf.  The Radical Islamists’ hate of the West, and particularly Jews and Israel, and their love of death (by their own repeated statements) must never overcome our LOVE of LIFE and FREEDOM. 

NEVER AGAIN needs to be heard again among those who truly want peace, before it is too late and we all end up living in fear, as they do in most Arab countries, because those who speak the truth are killed by the Cultist's. Their nasty habit of beheading and/or throwing off the roof their opponents (like the Hamas did in Gaza and as Pakistani Jihadists did to journalist Daniel Pearl) is a good method of keeping moderate Muslims in line and self-delusion in which anti-Zionism and Anti-Smuts is explained away by thier TURNSPEAK, such as you are promoting in the name of "peace".

Since the recent survey of the Muslims around the world, demonstrated that 15-20% of ALL Muslims have been radicalized, even when they live in the West, that makes up about 250 millions of hostile to the Western values of freedom and democracy people (out of the 1.3 billions of Muslims in the World).  The one billion of "moderate" nice Muslims are afraid to speak up, even if they were not clear victims of TURNSPEAK, as it has been demonstrated in misguided "peace" protest against Israel and when even OUR moderate Muslims, born in USA, were shouting slogans like Death to the Jews, Death to Israel, and Jews are dogs and pigs, which they read in their American madrases in their religious instructions classes, in the books paid by Saudi Arabia (in San Francisco).  Christians are also called monkeys and pigs!

I dare you to find any group of America who would give a support for such clear racism and anti-Sometime and disrespect of the rights of normal peaceful Americans!  Could you call such despicable names any African American, Catholic, Protestant, gay, or anybody else...Why it is acceptable to insult Jews and trash Zionism on this site, by using an invented "history" of "indigenous Palestinians", another myth of the TURNSPEAK. 

If you really want peace in the Middle East, learn history from legitimate sources, such as those Zionists who had lived it in Israel (they are dying out fast), rather than giving this fantasy invented by the Arab propagandists and misguided peacenicks like you and denying Israel basic human right to exist like any other nation on Earth.  It is the Radical Islam, which has caused the misery of the current Palestinians (most of them born after 1948), and which had killed far more Arabs and Palestinian Arabs than Israel ever did in self-defense and wars of survival.  

It is the radical Islamic Organisations that now pretend to be the promoters and protectors of the rights of Palestinian Arabs, who prevented the 600,000 Palestinian Arab refugees caused by the war for annihilation of Israel in 1948 (and again in 1956, 1067, and 1973 and numerous terrorist attacks of Israelis and other people around the world) to settle down in any Arab country in 1948 and had kept all those people and their far too numerous descendants in refugee camps.  Those unlucky Palsetinian Arabs, unlike the Israeli Arabs who decided to stay during the 1948, trusting that their Jewish (Zionist) neighbors would not slaughter them (and make up now 20% of Israeli total populations, enjoying prosperity better than in ANY other Arab country), becoming wardens of UN, rather than enabling them to lead normal lives. 

Those poor and entirely misguided Palestinian Arabs and the Arabs around the Middle East are the ones who teach their children to hate Israel and the Jews and fill those little cute kids with poison of hate, so that they become suicide/homocide martyrs to kill the Jews.   Even that blood label and fantasies of poisoning wells, and publishing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, are alive and poisoning the future generations of Arabs by blatant lies that incite them to go into streets and shout slogans like DEATH to the JEWS, and DEATH TO ISRAEL.   Don't blame Israel of America for everything that is wrong with the world, especially in the Middle East, and especially do not invent the history and cover the facts with the TURNSPEAK, picked up in Arab antisemitic hate Web sites.

I have known Israelis on the right to call for the death of Arabs and Palestinians. I also know many Muslims who deplore what is called here as radical Islamic Organizations. Support Israel all you want; I certainly do, but I find it extremely offensive when those who call themselves Zionists fail to realize that hatred can go both ways. Israel has some very unpleasant elements that spawn hate, just as there are many who want peace--I am a member of several of those organizations--Jews, Israelis and Arabs from all nations who want PEACE. The Palestinians are hardly poor and misguided, unless they simply choose to disagree with some of the statements made here. Then I think the right wing of Israel is equally misguided--the suppositions here are frightening, and I think even Bibi would pause at this rhetoric. And there are Israelis who call Arabs friends and visa versa. I have read some very good comments here, but I am saddened by this rush of emotion that is not tempered by reason. This is the sort of thing that kills people.