THE THREE STATE SOLUTION

Former US ambassador to the UN John Bolton, Middle East Forum president Daniel Pipes, and Efraim Inbar, director of Bar-Ilan University's Begin-Sadat (BESA) Center for Strategic Studies have concluded that the only realistic solution for peace right now is the three state solution.

Back to the future, to the same state of affairs that existed between 1949-1967, were Jordan was in control of the West Bank and Egypt in control of Gaza.

Wait for a new generation of Palestinians not brought up to hate and kill, build a democratic infrastructure that possibly in the future could lead to a state of their own. This is the only realistic pathway to cessation of violence now, in their minds.

The Zero State Solution

We have the one, the two and the three state solutions, the best solution I have heard so far comes from Caroline Glick, which I call the Zero State Solution, in her own words:

"While it is vital to recognize that the failed two-state solution must be abandoned, it is equally important that it not be replaced with another failed proposition.

The best way to move forward is by adopting a stabilization policy that enables Israel to secure itself while providing an opportunity for Palestinians to integrate gradually and peacefully with their Israeli, Egyptian and Jordanian neighbors.

For the full article please visit:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1233304665367&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

“It is easy to live in Chicago and believe in a one-state solution. Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza understand that the most immediate priority is to end the occupation, as soon as possible…That means two states.”

How is the one-state not equivalent an end to the occupation? Why is an end to the occupation means a two-state? Logically one does not imply the other. An end to the occupation means and end to the daily humiliations, restrictions on movemnet, arbitrary rules and especially the dominance of one powerful entity over another weaker one. That does not mean a two-state but could also mean accepting the other as an equal.
Those of us who believe in a one-state are often called idealists, often meant in a deragatory sense: disconnected from reality sitting in the ivory towers of academe and intellect. Nothing could be further from the truth. The belief that about half a million settlers are going to be moved from the settlements and that a truly sovereign Palestinian state would emerge in control of its own destiny is the epitome of unrealistic idealist expectations. Israel's obsession with "security" will guarantee that no sovereign and independent Palestinian state would emerge. What Israel seeks is not a sovereign Palestinian state but to shirk responsibility for the Palestinian population under its control. The Oslo process was not intended to achieve a Palestinian state but to implement the old Allon autonomy plan of 1968 with the PA replacing Jordan and if the Palestinians want to call it a state they are welcome to: “Yeah, the fragments of territory that we leave to them, they can call it a state if they want. Or they can call it fried chicken.” as Netanyahu's spokesperson said which sums up the various Israeli attitudes over tha last four decades of occupation.
The realization of either a two-state or a one state require a fundamental change in Israeli attitude where the Palestinians are seen as human beings and as equals. Once this shift happens then the obvious solution which guarantees justice and fairness and recognizes the equality of all is the one-state solution.
The reality on the ground is that there is a powerful entity dominating a weaker one. All decisions are made by Israel which controls every aspect of life in the occupied territories which are nothing more than a very large open air prison. The one state is achievable and is as realistic if no more so than talking of a sovereign Palestinian state. The shift in Israeli attitude can be generated by reframing the Palestinian struggle in terms of equality within the framework of a binational secular and democratic state.
It is time that Zionists recognize that the idea of an exclusivist Jewish State is an anacronism, a remnant of 19th century nationalism whose time has long gone. The same applies to Palestinians. The idea of a Jewish State is diametrically opposed to the idea of a true democarcy because to guarantee the Jewishness of the state then this means that non-Jews would have to be relegated to a status of perpetual minority through various means. We see this by the reference to the Arab Israeli citizens of Israel as a "demographic threat" a racist term which is openly used. Separate is never equal as we have learned from South Africa and the US. The idea of an exclusivist state for the benefit of one ethnic group or religion inevitably leads to discrimination and to xenophobia and therefore to conflict.
Partition has never worked despite many attempts at forcing it down our throats. The ideas of representative government, of binational state were never given a chance to actually be implemented. Isn't it time that we try something that might achieve a lasting peace rather than keep trying the old failed ideas?

Aref, their is already a one state solution its called Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Algeria, Sudan, need I go on. The Arabs have forty states, the Jews one state, you need forty one?

As someone who from the town of El-Bireh/Ramallah and who travels there and with family living there, I would say the days of two state solution are gone long time ago. The two state solution was doomed when Israel continued with its settlement policies after Oslo. There is simply no way to have a two state solutions with all of the settlements, every where , on every hill top, and with Jewish Roads Only taking whatever left. Jewish Settlers from New York took over our properties and land in Jabal Altaweel and built a large settlements overlooking the town, and we have no right to question that. Israel and America's support for the Settlement policies makes the one state solution as the only solution. For decades Jewish Americans were leading the US policies in the Middle East and they thought that supporting Israeli Jewish Settlement policy was a service they provided to Israel and the US, they are absolutely wrong. Otherwise let us make Israel the 51st State of the union and we can solve the problem overnight... What do you think of the idea Michael Ross?

Making Israel the 51st state, that idea Sami?

Funny.

Seriously, I am convinced Israel can get along fine with its neighbors, look at the peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt.

Once the Palestinians stop dreaming of all Palestine for themselves as portrayed in many maps produced by you, we can talk.

If you really want a state of your own, not just a way to get rid of Israel, because prior to 1967 you had no aspirations for your own state, so why all of a sudden, please explain Sami.

Then why all of the West Bank and Gaza, no logical reason for that, we can agree on part of the West Bank for you, but you have to earn it. You have to prove It us, the world that you can build and sustain a modern state.

Israel was built from nothing, desert and dirt roads, by the sweat of our backs, drying swamps and building roads on kilometer at a time, we had no billions of dollars of help, we didn't kill anyone for it, just got rid of the mosquitoes.

So yes, if you drop terror and show you are serious about having your own state on part of the West Bank and Gaza then I am sure the majority of Israelis would want nothing more.

Michael. I am very serious about making Israel the 51st. State. Think of all the saving for us tax payers. Think of the peace both Jews and Arabs will have. Think of Jews living in Ramallah and Palestinians living in Tel-Aviv. Think of free travel for all. Think of Arabs having same rights to own land in Israel and to own apartments in Jewish towns.Think of me getting my stolen property back. Think of the benefits for the other 50 states, since Israel/Palestine will have two senators and the other 100 senators will be free to represent their states again. I guess, Israelis and Jews have to stop dreaming of Eretz Israel and have to simply satisfy themselves with Israel of 67 borders. Since I don't believe in the Jews having divine rights in Palestine, this is the best that I can do for you. Nothing short and nothing less of 67 borders and East Jerusalem. I am sure majority of Americans will support the idea of Israel/Palestine becoming 51st. state.

Michael, what do you say to this?

http://www.science.co.il/Israel-map-Carta.asp

I just read over at Tony Karon's blog what Bibi's, as head of  Likud statements are as it pertains to an independent Palestinian state aka there won't be one.

"Once the Palestinians stop dreaming of all Palestine for themselves as portrayed in many maps produced by you, we can talk."

It gets rather exhausting refuting your bile but you did not do ANY research at all on those textbooks and also do NO research on Israel's own textbooks: they don't even have the Green Line. You can lash out at your perceived opponents but your side is not angelic, is not absolved from murder and dispossession, and is not in the clear from restitution for past and present crimes.

"Israel was built from nothing, desert and dirt roads, by the sweat of our backs, drying swamps and building roads on kilometer at a time, we had no billions of dollars of help, we didn't kill anyone for it, just got rid of the mosquitoes."

I guess when your reference is Alan Dershowitz, who lifted most of his book from Joan Peters, you end up like Michael Ross here.

 Sami I respect you a lot, an impressive list of achievements, as both of us are now Americans, I see your point, but practically this could never happen.

I don't follow your argument of 67 borders, you mean the 51st state will follow the 67 borders? Then what would happen to the West Bank and Gaza in this scenario? That would then become a Palestinian state?

The Arab League is a 22 member union. Forty states?!

PS If forty states is so aplenty, why would a forty-first be that hard to fathom?

The mirror argument:

"Israel were made up of European immigrants. Europe has forty states with plenty of Jews in there. Why do you need a forty-first?"Shameful. But a line many advocate.

Their are forty Muslim states, I can list them if you wish.

European states are not Jewish states, their is only one Jewish state.

Why do Muslims need another state? you haven't answered my question, Josh.

"Jewish Settlers from New York took over our properties and land in Jabal Altaweel and built a large settlements overlooking the town, and we have no right to question that."

Really? I wonder what all those Geneva Conventions were far if you had no right to question that.

Look, this argument over one-state vs two-state is old hack, and has been dealt with since the 70s and even then they spoke of the death knell of the two-state solution, how Israel is unwilling to let go of the settlements, how the occupation is a permanent feature of the conflict, and all of that WHEN there were no such thing as checkpoints and the separation wall. Sure, things get complicated and we get tough rhetoric from both sides, and the writing does look like it is on the wall but let's not get past the practicality over the plausibility here.

Israel occupied and settled the Sinai. They're gone. Israel occupied and settled the Gaza Strip and they're gone. (Although Gaza is no paradise.) The infrastructure was destroyed when the settlers vacated. I know what Gaza meant and what it means today so that's another subject matter. The point is Israel WITHDREW, most of the time at their own terms (but not the Sinai when Eisenhower said to go back). No matter how much we can speculate that East Jerusalem and the West Bank is more important, Sharon believed in not giving up an inch once also but here we are. With pressure applied I am more than hopeful that a fruitful solution could emerge. But that's where the problem is: WHERE IS THE PRESSURE? Israel is not going to do it out of sheer good will here.

"Oh hey, you're Palestinian and we're sorry we took your land and made you less human so here's your state. We'll go back to our side of the border (or wall) now. No hard feelings eh?"

Fantasy.

The Jews have been persecuted throughout history, 6 million murdered in WWII, now they are safe in their own state, and still being killed by their neighbours, that's why Israel needs its own state.

I don't see anyone hunting down and killing Muslims, so why do they need another state, Josh? ANSWER MY QUESTION!

"The Arabs have forty states, the Jews one state, you need forty one?"

Here's your EXACT quote Michael. I cannot help but read it properly and make you look silly in the comments section. If you scroll up you can see for yourself. You did not say "Muslim". You really are slithering like a snake.

"Why do Muslims need another state? you haven't answered my question, Josh"

So now you have coined your argument into a question of religion? I don't recall this ever being about that. This goes into another realm of statism and nationalism which is rather too indepth to go about it here.

It just boils down to this: Palestinians, whether they be Muslim or Christian (and some were Jews before Zionism), feel they are entitled to a state as to the UN Partition of 1947. Legally they are entitled to one. The necessity seems altogether too apparent here: the major consensus in the West Bank, Gaza and the refugee camps all want a state and all want to have a nation called Palestine where they have passports that say they are Palestinian. The need for a state has plenty to do with their own security, identity and survival as a separate group from their Arab brothers and for their prosperity.Better yet why not ask a Palestinian why they want a state? You've done a lot of talking about them but I haven't really seen you listening to what they have to say. Sadly, everyone IN THIS WORLD seems to know what is best for them but why not ask them what they want.

Over at Phil's blog he posted another poll taken in the West Bank. It could be a nice indicator on how to move on from here.

"now they are safe in their own state, and still being killed by their neighbours, that's why Israel needs its own state."

The fallacy in this statement alone makes me wonder how you can follow your own logic.

"Throughout history, if a group of people decide to settle their grievances by means of war, they always were willing to suffer the consequences of that decision. i.e. if they lost, then they lost territory."

Anarchronisms from our favourite commenter here. Might makes right.

"You should be happy with whatever you can get, because time is against you, and the settlements will continue, until you come to your senses."

Yeah because ALL those settlement activity putting Israelis in closer proximity with Palestinians made things much safer for "the light upon nations".

Josh, with your nimble mind you should be able to figure that one out. In your own state its easy to defend yourself from hostile neighbours, then if you are a guest in someone elses state.

Look, any one who believe Israel and the international Jewish community is interested in peace based on two state solution; Israel within 67 borders and Palestine in 67 borders is a fool and is dreaming. The whole idea of Jewish settlements supported by American Jewish policy makers in State and NSC is to make sure that a Palestinian State within 67 borders and East Jerusalem could never happen, and yes, they are right. There is simply no way for a Palestinian State to exist when every hill top is taken over by armed Jewish Terrorists and Settlers. They control every thing; roads, water, air, sea, land, oxygen, every thing.Once I was in Jennin, and there was no water in the tap, yet few hundred meters away, the Jews were watering the green grass and playing in swimming pool. I am sure the Jews see all of this, yet for some reason they develop certain amnesia, and go into self denial. Jews and Israelis are welcomed every where in the Arab world, but not as occupiers, not as armed terrorists, not as thieves and land robbers. What they did in Gaza is simply unforgivable and when they dropped over 1.5 million cluster bombs over civilians in Lebanon is also unforgivable. I only hope the Jews have the courage to take a good look in the mirror and see what they are doing to others. Would a Jew accept all these crimes committed against them, I do not think so? I do believe that Jewish American policy makers like Dennis Ross, Eliot Abrams, Martin Indyke working with Israeli leaders made sure that a Palestinian state could never take place. Now the only choice is one state solution, where Jews chose to live any where they want, and Arabs can do the same. Equal rights for all. No Apartheid State, No Settlers State and No terrorists state. If Hamas is terrorist organization because it uses explosive belts, then the Jewish Army of Israel is a terrorist organization because it uses cluster bombs, phosphorous bombs, tanks, jets, helicopters to attack home, schools, hospitals and food facilities. I am sure the Israelis would not mind if the roles were switched, with Hamas having all of the weapons Israel have to attack Tel-Aviv and its civilians and for Israel to have all of the missiles of Hamas to attack Gaza and its civilians. Something to think about. It may not be a bad idea.

Sami, what is this 'international Jewish community' of which you speak? The Jewish community I know is extremely diverse. There is no common leadership overseeing secret political strategy. Do you think Uri Avnery is not actually for the cause he has supported for so many years - a Palestinian state alongside Israel? Was I part of some weird secret scheme when I went to prison rather than serve in the West Bank? What about those refusing today? What about Dov Khenin, the Jewish Knesset Member who serves as part of Hadash? Or J Street, which represents the views of most American Jews?

I don't like thinly veiled language picking on 'the Jews' as though it was some kind of corporation. On the other hand, I think it is true that Israeli foreign policy is based on the public desire for a peaceful two state solution paired with a secret commitment to reject such a solution unless the Palestinians submit to a humiliating defeat that pushes them to civil war.

So it's hard to simply delete the views of Sami. They are the outcome of a disastrous Israeli game. The imperatives of the Israeli state, intent on preserving the settlements and domination of the Palestinians, leads to an increase in conspiratorial views of a mythical 'international Jewish community.'

"Gaza-infrastructure destroyed because Palestinian authority did not want the houses nor the buildings. Cut off their nose to spite the gift. Do you really think that "pressure" from the US is going to change the reality on the ground?"

You incorrectly attributed the destroyed Gaza structure to the PA when the settlers vacated back in '05. Not once did I say that the PA "did not want the houses nor the buildings." You have attempted to put words in my mouth, rather miserably too.As for "pressure", Israel can respond to anything they want. I just go by the past instances when Israel has withdrawn from territories and they did so back in '56 because the US told them to go back. That to me shows that Israel is still unwilling to be on the US blacklist and I believe EVERY nation does not want to be on the US badlist either, especially Israel which gets plenty of favours and aid with this relationship.

"Excuse me but only some one that does not live here would say such a silly statement. Threats will not move Israel if it thinks that acting accordingly is not in its interest to survive."

Because the track Israel has taken upon itself is so rosy and filled with petals and flowers. I may not live there but I attempt to get as much detail as I can about the improbability of Palestinian livelihood in the West Bank and Gaza and even the Palestinians of Israel. Granted it's not the same as living there but it's the best as one can do.

It's "survival" really is a matter of opinion. Many believe that the two-states is the only way for Zionism to survive. The longer this goes with no "pressure", the less likely Israel is going to do anything it sees that is not in its favour.

But please be lucid in what you really want: peace, justice or subjugation? Peace is not the same as justice and calm and quiet can be reached with subjugation and transfer. So what is it ultimately?

Joshua's last paragraph echoes my beliefs: peace is not the same as justice. I like that. Kudos to you, friend.As I said earlier, in the climate now, I don't see a one state solution happening, but really, why is it so terrible? Yes, there are other Arab countries, but that is like saying that all Arabs are the same, regardless of what country they come from. That is absurd. Why would a Jordanian who loves his country suddenly want to be Syrian? Egyptians are actually North Africans. Thanks to the Iraqi war, many Iraqi refugees live in Syria and Jordan--they went there out of necessity, not a choice.  Those of us who speak English as our first language are not a common people. If I go to New Zealand, I go to another country with a unique culture and identity. Why should they feel that I am one of them just because we have white skin and speak English? Peace will never take place in Israel as long as there is occupation. It also isn't good for the longterm health of the Israeli state. Palestinians went all over the world after Israel became a state, but I have yet to meet one who calls himself or herself anything but Palestinian first.  I don't think it is just to say to Palestinians that they should happily trot over to a nearby country--many were forced into that for survival, some have built roots, but a good many would turn their back on all that just to be in a Palestinian state.  Jordan is not Palestine.Relations between Israel and Jordan are frayed since the war. Egypt may be a friend to Israel, but it isn't a friend to its own people--Amnesty International has plenty on the current regime. Peace is work, but peace is not subjugation.  I see many benefits to snags in negociations in a one state solution, but if it is impossible, then Israel should end the occupation and set the groundwork for accepting Palestinians as an equal neighboring state. If peace could be made with Egypt, it can be made with Palestinians.  And yes, I know that it won't happen with Hamas, but it also won't happen with Fatah. New leadership is needed for Palestinians. From there, the possibilities can grow. I hope the coming elections in Israel will consder these things.

    Let me introduce myself.  I lived in Israel  for 11 years (1976-1987) and visited the Palestinian territories for several months.  I spent weeks in Kafr Kassem (Arab-Israeli) making friends and visited again in the summer of 2000. 
    I completed a degree in Arabic and Islamic studies. I don't enjoy much of this debate. I wish for some kind of compromise but I don't think we are getting close (at this web-site or anywhere). 
     Some of the pro-palestinian participants have commented how Israel is simply a product of European settlement. I don't have the numbers off of my head but I estimate that over one million Jews left Arab/Islamic countries under pressure.  If somebody has the exact numbers please forward them. Perhaps 100,000 from Iraq (and the worthy of statehood Kurdistan), perhaps 300,000 from Morroco, somewhere near 50,000 Iranian Jews and so on. 
     I married an Iranian Jew. We were together for 11 years and our child is a college graduate, very concerned about the Iranianian government's viewpoints in the Middle East.
     Nearly half of  Jewish Israelis have at least one grandparent born in a Moslem country.  If they are not given appropriate attention, special attention, there will never be any peaceful solution in the Middle Eastern/Arab-Israeli-Palestinian conflict.