I'm not sure what you're getting at here, Lara.  The news here is the mufti's position and to what extent it's representative of current Palestinian sentiments -- to the extent that anybody represents the current views of the Palestinians, who have lots of strong disagreements among themselves.  The Pope has repeatedly disavowed his membership in the Hitler Youth, which he says was forced on him.  Certainly he doesn't seem to be anti-Israel or anti-Jews now.  The Israelis who have met him seem to think he's OK.  Maybe he can help mediate.  Here's hoping.

The Mufti's words aren't in doubt - nothing he did or said appears to be out of character. Sometimes the press reports things misleadingly, but this isn't one of those times.

Again, what's interesting is that the Palestinian news sources I looked at were not doing a good job of providing the text of his words in a clean way. Had there been a way of showing that the NYT was mistranslating or something, I would have included it in my story.

"The first Arab news service I came across in a google search (appears to be Syrian) mentions the call for Christians and Muslims to unite
http://www.arabmonitor.info/news/dettaglio.php?idnews=27102&lang=en

So does the next one - I think it might be Hezbollah's?
http://www.almanar.com.lb/NewsSite/NewsDetails.aspx?id=85241&language=en

imemc, which is one of the first in Palestinian news web sites, also mentions the call for Christians and Muslims to unite
http://www.imemc.org/article/60342

Don't think your logic follows, when you say "Whatever logic it is that would compel 'Muslims and Christians to unite against Israel' would surely be applicable to calls for 'Christians and Jews to unite against Palestinians.'"  Israel is a state, Palestinians are a people.  Jews are a people, the sheik didn't say unite against them, like you imply.  Furthermore, Palestinians are the victims of Israel.  The logic is for members of the two religions to unite against the main perpetrator of ethnic cleansing in the locale.  You are saying the logic is the same as calling for members of two religions to unite against the victims of ethnic cleansing.  Yeah, I think he should have added Jews, Atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, followers of Native American religions and all people of good conscience should unite against Israel, not to discriminate.  Much better than the pro-Israel calls for Israel and the US to unite against Palestinians. Or pro-Israel calls for Jews and fundamentalist Christians to unite against Muslims.  You should suggest it to him.

Lyn, I'm grateful to you for making that search! I think some of the things you discovered came up after my own search. I do remember looking at the IMEMC site (a good one!) and not finding the quote that is there right now.

I also agree that because Israel is the main perpetrator and holds most of the power, that peace loving peoples of all religions should work to pressure Israel. BUT: why would anyone think of 'Muslims' or 'Christians' as being in a kind of monolithic catagory? The idea that members of one faith group should or could unite for or against various things feels a bit dated. Are peace loving Jews belonging to a seperate catagory?

The underlying sentiment is that 'everyone should be with us against them.' And that sentiment, of us versus them, is what I'm attacking. The 'Muslims' include everyone from Al-Qaida to Ahmadiyya. The 'Christians' include everyone from right wing supporters of Armageddon to the pacifists of the CPT in Hebron.

The Mufti is guilty of coming across as an immature extremist who doesn't think about religion and faith communities in a manner appropriate for the 21st Century. The Pope, on the other hand, has done a good job standing up for basic principles, and the Palestinians, without alienating most of the Israeli public. In the kerfuffle between the Mufti and the Pope, the Pope is more worthy of support.

So, it all ended up to who is more matured the Pope or the Mufti?!
The Mufti was merely directing his appeal to the only prime figure standing in front of him in his capacity as the most dominant figure in the Christian faith. It is unfair to use that against him just because he didn't include, in his appeal, peace loving people of other faiths, and I think that's what Lyn was hinting at above! I would have agreed with you, Charles, if the Mufti singled out Christians while he was addressing a multi religious forum.

Christian and Muslim Palestinians are the main victims of Israel, so it makes entire sense for the Mufti suggest they unite in opposition to that state, in particular when speaking as a member of one of those groups to the leader of the main division of the other.  As Abdullah says.  I still think he should have called on people of all faiths to unite against Israel.  The statement, as reported, is only out of place in a meeting to advance interfaith dialogue if one assumes that opposing Israel means opposing Jews or the Jewish faith.  Perhaps believing in the state of Israel is a tenet of the Jewish identity or Jewish faith.  I don't know but I do know a lot of anti-Zionist or anti-Israel Jews, so I would oppose that claim myself, on the other hand I've heard a lot of the usual pro-Israel crowd say it is.

Far be it for me to say what another person's faith should be.  It's when they use that belief to justify murder and ethnic cleansing that I have a quarrel with it.  You may think of fundamentalists as fanatic believers that biblical texts are the literal truth, but belief in other myths are also used to justify mass murder.  Zionism isn't a fundamentalist creed, but murder and ethnic cleansing were required to fulfill its objectives, they were always part of the thought process, murder and ethnic cleansing continue to this date as policies and practices of the state of Israel.  It may be true that today the vanguard of Zionism are the fundamentalist settlers and their Christian Zionist supporters, but that wasn't true in 1948, when it was the secular Zionists who were doing the mass murders.

The proposition that the that the mufti was opposing fundamentalism of only one type (Jewish) doesn't appear warranted from the statements he made, the implication of bad PR resulting from it is therefore rather specious.

"Christian and Muslim Palestinians are the main victims of Israel..."
 
  In what way, Lyn? Christian sites are preserved. Muslim sites are preserved. Each have full access to their sites. Judaic sites in Arab lands? Not preserved. Jews don't have full rights to visit those sites, as was proved when Jordan (formerly 74% of the Brit's Palestine) disallowed Jews to enter the shadow of the Western Wall (our #1 holy site).

  I'm sure you mean by war, right Lyn? Although there are Muslim citizens of Israel, and Christian citizens of Israel, guess what? There are no Jewish citizens of Jordan. Or Saudi Arabia. Or many in Syria or Egypt. But you're a propagandist, and as by definition your arguments are flimsy and full of hyperbole.

"I still think he should have called on people of all faiths to unite against Israel.  The statement, as reported, is only out of place in a meeting to advance interfaith dialogue if one assumes that opposing Israel means opposing Jews or the Jewish faith."

  Israel is a Jewish state. It is the only Jewish state in the world. It is the size of Rhode Island, and it has been in the diplomatic works since early in the 19th century. The only reason to oppose a Jewish state of Israel is to stop the Jews from self-determination. That is why there have not been any pogroms in the Middle East since her creation. Yes, wanting to destroy Israel is on par with being willing to destroy Jewish lives.

  "I don't know but I do know a lot of anti-Zionist or anti-Israel Jews, so I would oppose that claim myself, on the other hand I've heard a lot of the usual pro-Israel crowd say it is."

  And I know a lot of black people, and we all think I'd be a great rapper.

"Far be it for me to say what another person's faith should be.  It's when they use that belief to justify murder and ethnic cleansing that I have a quarrel with it."

  More ambiguity from you, Lyn. Is this the mode of argument that Change.org supports? My original 2 responses to this vehement anti-Israel screed was deleted by the moderators. Great to know that you folks are all about bringing people together-- apparently, all folks who hate Jews should be allowed to bash ambiguously on Israel on the Change.org website.

  So what are we changing to? Life in Berlin, circa 1935?

 

http://www.drybonesproject.com/blog/pages/D09510_3600.html

Lyn you got all your facts just plain wrong:

1. The land occupied by Israel was a result of a war of aggression against Israel and as such is according to the Geneva convention a legal occupation, so no land was taken illegally from Palestinians.

2. Israel was built on land allocated to her by a majority vote of the UN in 1947, again totally legal, so what was taken from Palestinians supposedly?

3. I don't know what books you read but in June of 1967 Jordan, Egypt and Syria amassed all of there armies on Israel's borders with the full intent of attacking, so how did Israel start this war?

Is there a reason why this blog has published far fewer posts than it has in the past? 

Well having been to Israel I didnt quite find Palestine... And as for the Palestinians, sure they are free (to roam of whats left of their homes).

My experience of the co-existing Jews and Muslim in Jerusalem was quite shocking. Palestinians are clearly third class citizens, non-stop id checking, police brutality in front of my eyes, guns being pointed in front of chilrens faces, spoken to like they were animals, ordered around for no apparent reason. On the other hand the when Jews are upto no good they get a "hey, cmon cut it out" and have guns pointed back towards the Palestinian and told "move along" away from your home.

During a major alert closeby to the old city some Palestinians were badly beaten up by Jewish women and children, I was absolutely disgusted.

Imagine the Red Indians were to come back and started this in America, or the Aboriginies in Australia kill all the english and make them wish they were never born. This is clearly happening in Palestine by those who think they are the children of Israel.

As for the Mufti and his comment... What do you expect Charles? You need to grow up, trying to fuel more fued. Whether is Jews or Israel he meant we know who he was talking about (the people who have been oppressing the weak for more than 60 years).

I can already feel a twat coming along and telling me about what the Jews have suffered. Get over it. The Zionist have done far worse, just compare the recent "damage" and "death toll" on both sides. Try convincing me its a war between two equals.

Yes, something needs to be done, no one should have to live in fear like this. The only way is to actually tie a leash around these people as its clear that they are way beyond insanity, deaf dumb and blinded at what they are actually doing far from the teachings of their religion as its a religious War and they fight for the holy land.

THIS IS NOT A RELIGIOUS CONFLICT. That's a Zionist ploy of accusing everybody of being antisemitic.

Wow, and I thought change.org might actually be Zionist-propaganda free.....