I am very concerned about the Middle East.   The fact that the Iraqi's are doing better today than a few years ago before the war is a blessing to them.  Our troops are Angels.  The Kurds,Sunnis and Shiites must learn how to get along without a fight. enough is enough.  Live Life with out killing your fellow neighbor.  Just look at Israelis how peaceful they are and how they try to hold their ground, than look at the Palestinians how much hatred they  have and are constantly trying to kill and  hurt others.  Respecting the Islamic views is what Americans do, but when they use Islam to kill themselves and others. Than that religion must be respected, but does not work to the advantage of the people.  People must be free and at Peace and that is why our Almighty God Works for us because he shows Americans Peace.  and We must respect everyones religion as we do, the the World Must Respect Ours.  That is what our Country is build on.  Truth, Light and the Way of Living.  If the Palestinians can not change their views and learn how to get along and stop killing one another, they will never see peace in their lives,  That goes for anyone in the Middle East.  They all have a Power Hunger. But Killing is not the Answer.  Helping their Country and their Children is.  with whatever God they serve. must be proven . No Killing one another.  May God Bless them all and May God Continue to shed his grace among all man kind.  Peace.

Charles,
My opinion is that in the long run the so called "Palestinians" will disappear, they are not a nation, cuture or people, I tend to accept Golda's view. After May of 1948 Palestine ceased to exist. All of a sudden after the six day war in 1967 the local inhabitants of the West Bank need a state, nonsense they were happy Jordanians. How come under Jordan rule this was not a desire. This is just a ploy to destroy Israel. The Arabs living in the West Bank are former Jordanian citizens, and if Jordan were a democracy they would all be living in Jordan. The long time solution is for them to become Jordanian citizens again and for Israel and Jordan to come to a territorial agreement on how to split the West Bank between the two countries. Gaza should go back to Egypt's responsiblity. The whole world is buying into Arab lies and deceit, if it wasn't for Arab oil this whole conflict would have been over 60 years ago. We should be focusing on Jordan, thats the key to the Arabs living in the West Bank. The Arab world refused to accept the UN resolution granting them a state for themselves in 1948. They lost the 1948 war and its time the Arab world accept that responsibility and take care of the millions of refugees they created and millions of Arabs living in the West Bank now without a state or home of their own, this is not Israel's responsibility, even if the Israeli left believe so. Any solution short of returning the Arabs living in the West Bank to Jordanian citizenship is doomed to fail and create another Israeli war. The Saudi Arabian plan is just another two step plan to eliminate Israel, first Palestine in the West Bank, then all of Israel, check out any Palestinian website, Palestine is shown as a map of all of Israel, so don't be naive, pro-Israel means being realistic about these bogus peace proposals.

I'm going to go on the loose assumption that Michael is oblivious of the matters at hand. One of those guys taught by the textbook who believes Columbus is a hero, and John Brown is a terrorist.

Now Charles,
Can you imagine the overwhelmingly amount of Jews who share Michael's biased views?
Let's go back in history,avoiding the textbooks, sorry Michael.
For centuries there was no conflict in Palestine, in the 19th century. It was a multi-cultural state. 86% Muslim, 10% Christian, and 4% Jewish. Now when the British decided to colonize this land the Jewish wanted their own seperate state. In fact, first they considered lands near Africa before coming to Palestine. After the holocaust more zionists came into Palestine to avoid anti-semitism. Thus how the conflict broke out.

The UN gave 55% of Palestine to the Jewish people, regardless that they only made up 30% of the population. Arab armies never invaded Israel; these wars were fought on land that belonged to the Palestinian state. Nonetheless, Arab armies only engaged in this conflict after more than 15 massacres had occured. After this "conquest" as Deir Yassin put it, 750,000 Palestinians were refuged. More than 500 towns were destroyed. Palestinian culture was to be erased right along with Palestine. The UN condemned this; and it was in fact Israel that chose to ignore the partition plan, not the Palestinians.

America turned a blind eye to the nakba.

In 2000 about 123 Israeli children died; and Palestinian children? 1050. If this is your way of "dissapearing" the Palestinians, M. Ross, then by jolly it's working.
The biggest conflict at hand right now is the siege in Gaza. 1.4 million Palestinians are squeeze into Gaza, locked in this prison where they are deprived often of water, electricity and food. They cannot recieve outside aid. They cannot seek medical attention outside of their local shitholes they call a hospital, for serious medical treatment. No one can cross the checkpoints. I may young but I can't deem this as justly.This world is buying into the Israeli lies and deceit, if it wasn't for the emphasisation of the holocaust this conflict would have been over 60 years ago.

Charles, I believe in two seperate states, with Jerusalem an international city. I envision two seperate states in which the West Bank and Gaza are under a Palestinian government. Peace is freedom from violence, I wouldn't understand any other solution to the conflict.

A side note, my Mum's a Sunni, and my Father a Shiite. There's hope.

I'm promoting an idea for creating lasting peace in the Middle East and the world. It still needs a lot of votes to make it into the second round. Please help provide a more hopeful vision and alternative to the endless spiral of violence escalating in the Middle East by casting your vote today.  Thank you. 
http://www.change.org/ideas/view/israel_as_cornerstone_for_a_future_united_states_of_earth

The first Earthpledge proposal wasn't as clear as it needed to be which caused some confusion. Please take a closer look at this hopeful vision and alternative to the endless spiral of violence escalating in the Middle East and cast your vote today. Thank you. 
http://www.change.org/ideas/view/israel_as_cornerstone_for_a_future_united_states_of_earth
Also, please check out my friend Josep's proposal for human unity:
http://www.change.org/ideas/view/human_union

Hello Charles!
Just want to send a note to Dina regarding Michael's biased views;  The lie is spread and as long as racism continues there will be no unity. International non-violent freedom fighters must expose hatred just as in the civil rights movement.

I wanted to weigh in on this discussion, as I just joined this group today. In order to understand the current situation in Israel today, I believe it's important to get back to the real issue - and that is who does this land actually belong to? Today, there are two groups of people who are in conflict over this cenral issue. And while there are valid points on both sides, only one of the those people actually owns the 'deed' to the property. While I don't expect that I will change anyone's mind over this matter, I believe that it's important to lay out the fundamental facts.

This land (Israel) was given to the Jewish People by God over 4,000 years ago (read Genesis 12:7). According to God's will, the Palestinians have no claim to any of this land. Without going into all of the details, I will leave you with this link and hope that you find the contents revealing:

http://shalach.org/IsraelFacts/IsraelFacts.htm

There is a solution to this conflict, but it means that everyone involved first needs to recognize the facts in regards to ownership. Once this happens, then the solution will present itself.

If you remember, the plantation owners in America used their Bibles to justify and sanction slavery. Their argument went something like this, "according to God's will, the slaves have no claim to freedom." Even after hundreds of years of slavery and injustice, look at where these racists ended up; on the wrongs side of history.

Human beings have used God to justify horrible acts of cruelty toward one another since the beginning of time. This is nothing new. To enslave other people is always wrong. Pharaoh found out this truth the hard way in the Book of Exodus. The plantation owners were also on the wrong side of history for the same reason. While I would not characterize God as a "real-estate agent" I would say that He is almighty and sovereign and can give kingdoms and land to any people that He chooses. 

But the problem arises when I decide that God has given me complete backing to take kingdoms and lands away from those infidels who don't believe in him. What if the Islamists decide Allah has promised them Israel by way of Koran land deed? Then it comes down to, "I'm going to prove God is on my side by utterly destroying and driving you into the sea." There has got to be a better way beyond that of a God smack-down.
http://www.earthpledge.net/middleeastpeace.htm

Eli- You stated the 'problem' in your first sentence: when human beings decide that God has given them justification to take kingdoms and lands away from non-believers. Nothing can ultimately happen or stand unless God allows it to happen; He is in complete control. The Muslims may consider that God has given then the land of Israel by way of a land deed in the Koran. However, the reality of the situation is that Israel controls this land and the Jews have come back to their ancestral homeland. All of this was foretold in the Old Testament. The 'better way' beyond a "smack-down" is ultimately recognizing which party is the rightful owner of this land.

Matthew-
In your paradigm, the theater of the universe sets an impersonal stage for all events. So, this vast freedom experienced by all beings is what you would call "God." Is this a masculine or feminine force / personality, or both? You refer to God as "He" so in your universe, a masculine presence rules the universe with an iron fist of finality. If a hurricane slams into and destroys your church, it is because God allowed it to happen? You say that Israel controls this land and God has allowed it to happen and thus somehow approves of it? What about slavery, the holocaust or Hiroshima? Does God approve of all the bad things that come out of the freedom he provides? With this line of reasoning, God also approves of evil and Satan because like a good movie, good and evil are essential components - the antagonist is needed to bring glory to Christ so he can save the world and play hero. 
This is a valid perspective shared by billions of human beings, but remember that the Muslims also have their valid perspective because God has allowed them to have it too. But if the West turns materialistic, America becomes Empire, launches a nuclear strike on Arab nations in the Middle East to seize control of the world's oil supply and vanquish Islam, God would support this because he allowed it to happen? Or what about this scenario: The Taliban come back with a vengeance in Pakistan and overthrows the government. Osama Bin Laden rises to power and is somehow able to unite the Arab world in a jihad against the West. Pakistan's warhead supply are fragmented and distributed in suitcase nukes to be used to topple America, Israel and Europe. The holy land is recaptured, the Statue of Liberty is recast in a burka as dozens of Western cities burn. A new Islamic Empire emerges and because God allowed it? From God's perspective, this is an entertaining game that always yields a new champ. If God allows the Steelers to be winners this year, he will allow another team to dethrone them by way of force next year. Isn't this the history of humanity?
I'm going to go out on a limb though and argue for an alternative perspective of God. You also say, "The 'better way' beyond a "smack-down" is ultimately recognizing which party is the rightful owner of this land." That sounds like a recipe for more war because who is going to agree to that? Well how about this alternative: end the perpetual drama altogether, disarm the world and make it a United States of Earth:
http://www.earthpledge.net/americaworld.htm
Then if there is still the masculine need to express the iron fist of finality, let them do so on the football fields. The Jews can still have their team, the Palestinians can have theirs but at least they can claim the Vince Lombardi trophy without devastating the environment, laying waste to entire cities and screwing up the planet for everyone else who doesn't want to watch football. 
I'm not a huge Richard Dawkins fan, but he has a very valuable perspective we should all consider when thinking about God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JILQYsCIeLA

I just thought about what I said and smiled:
"That sounds like a recipe for more war because who is going to agree to that? Well how about this alternative: end the perpetual drama altogether, disarm the world and make it a United States of Earth:"
I suppose my idea is a recipe for more war too because who is going to agree to disarm.  :-)  I think it can be done but not in the big brother - disarm through force paradigm. We gotta make the United States of Earth in peaceful increments. We can start here: 
http://homepage.mac.com/eliw/first_state.pdf

Eli: You covered a great deal of ground in your last post, but I will try to respond as best I can. Prophecy is the fortelling of future events. The first wave - and many of the successive waves - of Jewish settlers who came to Israel as pioneers in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century were, for the most part, atheists and not terribly observant. The Old Testament fortold the restoration of the nation of Israel (read Ezekiel 36 - 39). To learn more about Bible prophecy, go to this site:
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/restoration.htm

There is an old Jewish saying that goes like this: "Man plans, God laughs" (see Psalm 2). There have been countless ideas (like your own) and numerous plans to arrive at somekind of peace accord between the Jews and the Palestinians. Up to now, they have all failed. I believe that the main reason why they have failed is due to the inablity to recognize God's plan for His people and for the land He gave them. Years ago, I thought that the Oslo Accords made a great deal of sense. It is not been successful and all peace plans engineered by man are doomed to failure because they do not recognize God's original plan.

The God that I serve is not just "my God" but the God who has created our world and the universe. Whether you recognize His word and His plan for Israel and the Jewish People is up to you. I believe in His word and I believe that the land of Israel was given to the Jewish People over 4,000 years ago. You may not share my belief in this, but it doesn't make you my enemy if you have other ideas. The current conflict in Gaza was begun by Hamas, launching crude rockets into Southern Israel and terrorizing the Israelis. If Israel waged a war against the population in Gaza, it did so in order to stop the daily bombardment of these rockets. The Israelis are simply trying to protect themselves and wish to live in peace with their neighbors. And while their response may have been in the extreme, I completely understand their desire to stop these rocket attacks.

I am not a "who would Jesus bomb" kind of Christian." It causes me grief to see innocent civilians on both sides of this conflict being harmed and even killed. However, as I have mentioned before the central issue here is who does this land belong to. There is a deed to this property and it can be found in the Old Testament.

Your problem is that you are seeing this situation from a human perspective and not from a Godly perspective. I have read your document and I think that your utopian ideas of peace and brotherhood are very honorable. I also believe that world peace is something that will come about, in God's time - and not according to our timing. As the Bible states: "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God" (Matthew 5:9). It is always right and just to search for peace and to turn away from violence and war, which is the ultimate failure. If you could convince the majority of the Israelis and Palestinians to accept one another and to work for peace and harmony, then your plan to turn this part of the world into a peaceful haven might have a chance. Unfortunately, the reality is very different. I know that I haven't addressed all of your questions to me, but I hope this clears a lot of things up.

Matthew-
You said, "There is an old Jewish saying that goes like this: "Man plans, God laughs" (see Psalm 2). There have been countless ideas (like your own) and numerous plans to arrive at somekind of peace accord between the Jews and the Palestinians. Up to now, they have all failed."
You described perfectly the tension that exists in the world for everyone with dreams and everything that runs up against those plans. This is what makes life interesting and exciting. Even though the odds may be stacked up against someone, is just the more reason to try even harder to push the limits and turn your life into something extraordinary. True, history is littered with people who crashed and burned, but that won't stop the living from trying to pick up the pieces and try to put them back together. Think of those individuals throughout history who did extraordinary things that changed the world forever. I've heard somewhere that Edison tried over a 1,000 different permutations of the light bulb before he found one that worked. 
Also, you gotta see that the same things have been said throughout history, over and over again. "If God wanted us to fly, he would have given us wings." Did this stop the Wright Brothers from giving up? There are always those who say, "It can't be done!" "Might as well give up." And there are always those who say, "It can be done!" "I will not give up." We're all going to die so why not give it your best try. Shoot for the stars and you might end up hitting the moon. Then someone else will come along and build over what you've done and eventually they will reach the stars. 
You say that peace plans engineered by man are doomed to failure. What about instances where peace plans succeeded? What do you say about those? They are anomalies? I ran into some folks at the inauguration in Washington who were holding signs that said, "Our World Has Failed. Put Your Faith in God." I tried to talk to them but most of them just ignored me. The one guy who I was able to engage, I told him, "But we are still here. It must mean there is still a chance for our world to succeed or else we would have died out thousands of years ago." As long as you are still alive, there is a chance for living, dreaming and making plans for building a brighter future. 
I'm glad that I'm not an enemy of you and your God for not believing the same things you do. Sometimes you talk to religious people who pull you into a dualistic snare. If you don't believe in their God, you are in danger of landing in with the camp over there, the enemy. Just your engaging with me in this conversation says a lot for your ability to hear out the other side and I thank you.
Your deed argument isn't going to work with the Muslims because they have added the Koran to the Bible and it says something different. You can argue with them all you want but it isn't going to convince them to throw away their belief of God providing a new land deed in their sacred scripture. The only solution is for these two sides to tear down the walls and live together in a place with separation of church and state. This is probably the one reason we didn't have the same kind of problem in America. The confederates didn't build a separate state in a section of Alabama that they could build walls around and keep all the black people inside. Both sides integrated and now in the US, we have the first biracial president. 
Maybe you can enlighten me on what a Godly perspective is. Or can you see the image of God within my hopes for a united world? What's wrong with working towards that and even the religious folks can meet God halfway. You don't have to abandon your faith in Christ returning. Perhaps your work on behalf of Christ's kingdom can even strengthen your faith in visualizing his return to meet you halfway in the task of bridging heaven and earth. 
I'm glad there is a open place in your heart for the peacemakers. As we can see around the world, there are peacemakers within every religion. And didn't Jesus say, "If you do it to the least of these my brethren, you do it unto me." So if we reach out to the Palestinians in the battle wreckage of Gaza and say, "There is a place for you in Israel as a human being, guaranteed universal human rights along side with your Jewish brothers and sisters," we will be doing this to Jesus. Correct? Then the walls can come down and both sides merge into one state of peace and justice for all. Yeah, you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.  :-)

Eli-
I think we can both agree that trying to find alternatives to war and conflict make more sense than killing each other. As a matter of fact, the Bible speaks very strongly about peacemakers being the true children of God (Matthew 5:9). I don't believe that I said that all peace plans engineered by man are doomed to failure. I was referring to all of the grand, comprehensive peace plans put forth by numerous nations in the Middle East. While the individual peace plans between Israel and Egypt and Israel and Jordan have been successful, no overall peace plan that included a solution for the Palestinians has been successful up to now. I am not against individuals or groups attempting to wage peace or find common ground with one another; if anything, there are elements within all the three major religious groups in the Middle East who have struggled toward that goal for years. In other words, we should never give up trying to find common ground and we should always work for peace and brotherhood.

However, the case concerning Israel is very complicated and has resisted progress for a number of reasons. In order to understand the complexity of this situation, you will have to understand Jewish history and know something about current demographics. Whenever the Jewish People have settled anywhere, they have ultimately been persecuted by the majority population - thus the overwhelming need to have a country of their own where they are in the majority population. Also, it's important to understand that the Palestinian birthrate is much higher (2-3 times) that of the Jewish population. In other words, the Palestinians in the "occupied" territories of the West Bank represent a "ticking time bomb" for the Israeli population. It's very possible that within another generation or two, the Palestinians will outnumber the Jewish population - and this presents a very serious problem for the Israelis. The idea of both people sharing this land is not feasible, in large part because the West Bank cannot sustain millions of Palestinians; there is no infrastructure, manufacturing, agricultural or economic base that will provide them with the necessary jobs or means to live. Most of them have had to work in jobs in the heart of Israel, while many others have found work in construction projects on the West Bank (building the Jewish settlements). The Israelis fear that they will eventually become a minority population in their own country - and this has motivated many Israelis to call for the expulsion of the Palestinians.

So you can see that this situation is very complicated and not easily solved. That is the reason why I always find myself getting back to God's original plan for Israel, and that is for the Jewish People to be the majority population; and for the Palestinians to be settled outside of Israel (and the West Bank).

Seeing things from a Godly perspective involves seeing things from His point of view (and according to His plans). God gave the Land of Israel to the Jewish People as a permanent possession 4,000 years ago. Before he died, Moses told the Israelites to kick out the people living in that land or they would be a thorn in their side for years to come. And this is exactly what has happened 3500 years later! So in this regard, God's original plan made the most sense.

Why can't the the Obama Administration withdraw from the U.S. Empire, and dramatically slash the U.S. defense budget."

"Guns and Butter (Again)," by Ivan Eland (2/2/09)

WE LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD, PEOPLE.  Bottom line is the 60 year refusal to recognize Israel.  If this had been done back in '48 none of this would be happening now.  There is NO agreement that Hamas, or their predecessors, (Arafat included, walking out on peace talks and escalating terrorist attacks) will accept, other than Israel either be destroyed or becomes part of the Arab nation.

All the death during these years, including the recent FACT that Hamas used their citizens as human shields in order to facilitate sympathy by making Israel appear to be inhuman monsters, is the fascist anti-Semitic Palestinian regime's attempt at "wagging the dog". 


The following is the latest proof of this.  Of course this FACT will be distorted quickly and the usual rederick will be heard from the fascist left who camouflages itself as "liberals" in order to provide misinformation along with the "new history" of the middle east. 

"Hamas rejects Clinton's call to recognize Israel:     

Hamas rejected a call by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for the Islamic group to recognize the state of Israel, and said her request was unacceptable to the Palestinians, Army Radio reported on Saturday afternoon.     

Hamas spokesman Ismail Radwan reportedly said that the group will not recognize Israel nor comply with the conditions set by the Quartet.     

On Friday, Clinton was quoted as saying that the Egyptian-brokered efforts to bring about reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah will only work if the group recognizes Israel.     

AFP cited a Voice of America radio report which quoted Clinton as saying "I believe that it's important, if there is some reconciliation and a move toward a unified authority, that it's very clear that Hamas knows the conditions that have been set forth by the quartet, by the Arab summit."     

Egypt urges Palestinian reconciliation. Representatives of both Hamas and Fatah attended reconciliation talks in Cairo on Wednesday and Thursday. Previous reconciliation talks fell apart in November 2008 when Hamas pulled out at the last minute after a dispute with Fatah over releasing Hamas prisoners.    

 "They must renounce violence, recognize Israel, and abide by previous commitments, she said of Hamas, "otherwise, I don't think it will result in the kind of positive step forward either for the Palestinian people or as a vehicle for a reinvigorated effort to obtain peace that leads to a Palestinian state."     

Clinton is set to arrive in the Middle East on Monday, where she will attend a summit in Egypt on reconstructing Gaza after Operation Cast Lead against Hamas terrorists. She will then visit Jerusalem on her first official visit in her new position.     

Regarding US contribution to Palestinians in the Strip, the secretary of state was quoted as saying, 'I will be announcing a commitment to a significant aid package, but it will only be spent if we determine that our goals can be furthered rather than undermined or subverted.' "

Matthew: 1) I didn't say "Hitler won WWII! That's probably what caused your confusion!
2) As for you singling out the Palestinians for being "un"able to comprehend is beyond my comprehension!
3) As for the "deed" I would like to point out the following:
  a) I - and the whole world - will believe you after you provide the necessary documentations incl. signatures of the involved parties esp. that of the "Giver!" 
  b) After that we will be able to identify who will be the beneficiaries of that "gift" and in what format? eg. is it Only for descendants of the Hebrew Jews who were living in Palestine at the time or also included are the converts -such as East Europeans? And is "the Gift" in form of a peaceful integration with the inhabitants of the land or is it exclusive? After that we might need to discuss if forcing the natives out through means of killing and terror would contradict the tenants of "Thou Shall Not Kill and Not Steal!" or is there a special waiver attached to the "Gift"?!
I am not going to ask you what percentage of the Israelis now believe the authenticity of that "deed?"

Matthew: Unfortunately, you have not addressed any of the points I have raised so far. Have you done that you would have been able to see the relevancy of my original post and hence we -both- could have established a ground for further debate on the issues!
Again; And to recap:
1) We started with your claim around the "Missed or Lost Opportunities" by my question: (What if Hitler during WWII had offered the allies a "Peace Treaty" in which he will put a stop to the gas chambers and premised to convert the camps into livable territories for the rest of the Jews "the survivors at the time" to live in?! Would that been an "Opportunity" not to be missed?!
2) You did not answer my "specific" questions about the "deed!" After you do that I will discuss with you the relevance of the Holocaust as well as the relevance of the Palestinians' comprehension of it. Mind you I do not accept your claim that the East Europeans were not convert nor your dismissal of the relevancy of the Israelis believe in the authenticity of the "deed!"

Matthew to further strengthen the Israeli claim on Eretz Israel we have the archaeological finds "the Dead Sea Scrolls" Masada, amongst many others that give undeniable scientific proof of the Jewish population living in Israel over 2,000 years ago, and earlier.

The so called Palestinians have no such history what so ever, prior to 1967 they had no aspirations for an independent state, over night suddenly, the Jordanians from the West Bank and the Egyptians from Gaza, that don't even get along decide they want a state, BS. This is all another plan to get rid of Israel.

Israel's mistake was not to negotiate with Jordan and Egypt, the fate of these parcels of land and the population living there.

It is still possible to negotiate a federation between parts of the WB and Jordan for the Arabs living there, and a similar deal with Egypt and the population there.

Their is no logic for a Palestinian state, this would be a mistake worse than the one Israel did with Gaza.

One state, the state of Israel with federations between Egypt, Jordan and the WB and Gaza is the only rational solution.

If God wanted to make a land deed that was unmistakably authentic, why not encode it right into the chosen people's DNA? That would be more convincing for the atheist people who believe the Torah was written by fallible men. Or why doesn't God come down and give a press conference? This would provide unmistakable evidence making it much more likely that Palestinians turn their land over and move to another country. 
As for Israel turning the desert into a garden, war does the opposite. The environmental impact of the most recent wars have been harmful to the entire region and God doesn't stop the pollution from stopping outside Israel's borders. Here's some links I just found on this subject:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/poisonous-clouds-of-pollution-spread-after-israel-air-strike-415335.html
http://greenprophet.com/2009/02/02/6559/enviromental-impacts-gaza-conflict/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5233358.stm

Matthew: Thank you for "finally" answering my question; You said: (( If Hitler had done what you said, would that be anykind of "opportunity not to be missed" by the surviving Jews? Of course not.)) I say: The same applies for the Palestinian rejection of any "offer" put to them by their oppressors. Therefore Mr. Rabin's arrogant statement is superfleous!
As for your inability to provide an actual signature, your claim for the "deed" becomes meaningless in our secular and judicial systems and also multi-religious world!

CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years 
Fri, 13 Mar 2009
International lawyer Franklin Lamb

A study conducted by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has cast doubt over Israel's survival beyond the next 20 years.

The CIA report predicts "an inexorable movement away from a two-state to a one-state solution, as the most viable model based on democratic principles of full equality that sheds the looming specter of colonial Apartheid while allowing for the return of the 1947/1948 and 1967 refugees. The latter being the precondition for sustainable peace in the region." 

The study, which has been made available only to a certain number of individuals, further forecasts the return of all Palestinian refugees to the occupied territories, and the exodus of two million Israeli - who would move to the US in the next fifteen years. 

"There is over 500,000 Israelis with American passports and more than 300,000 living in the area of just California," International lawyer Franklin Lamb said in an interview with Press TV on Friday, adding that those who do not have American or western passport, have already applied for them. 

"So I think the handwriting at least among the public in Israel is on the wall...[which] suggests history will reject the colonial enterprise sooner or later," Lamb stressed. 

He said CIA, in its report, alludes to the unexpectedly quick fall of the apartheid government in South Africa and recalls the disintegration of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, suggesting the end to the dream of an 'Israeli land' would happen 'way sooner' than later. 

The study further predicts the return of over one and a half million Israelis to Russia and other parts of Europe, and denotes a decline in Israeli births whereas a rise in the Palestinian population. 

Lamb said given the Israeli conduct toward the Palestinians and the Gaza strip in particular, the American public -- which has been voicing its protest against Tel Aviv's measures in the last 25 years -- may 'not take it anymore'. 

Some members of the US Senate Intelligence Committee have been informed of the report.

Matthew: I thought you have gotten it by now! But as it doesn't hurt me to spell it out for you; At least 66% of the people on our planet do not subscribe to any of the references you have been quating so far!
Can you -just- try to imagine that?!

Sorry of the thread becomes confused after I delete anyone who portrays god as a real estate agent, presents any one religion as being true, or espouses any form of religious fundamentalism.

I think there is quite enough of that on other sites.

But if you censor him, will that just give fuel for his cause? Just weighing the pros and cons of censorship. I think just seeing the flow of thought in this dialogue is enough to be clear about what makes sense and what seems outlandish. But then again, I'm speaking from a perspective that finds fundamentalist dogma disturbing and incomprehensible. 

It may be helpful to this comment forum to have a look at Debatepedia's extensive pro/con article on a two-state solution vs. a one-state solution.

http://wiki.idebate.org/index.php/Debate:_Two-state_solution_to_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict#Pro